Author Topic: Back to VVVVVV (V1.2.3)  (Read 79302 times)

Dav999

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Re: Back to VVVVVV
« Reply #90 on: November 09, 2012, 02:53:48 PM »
If you don't want the game to say 21/20 trinkets, and give only one star, I think you can place a trinket in an inaccessible room with a text editor.
I'd like that bonus trinket to stay hidden until you stumble upon it for yourself, so the max is going to stay at 20 :)

It's a shame that it only gives one star though, nothing I can do about it.

In that case, it isn't possible. Unless we find a way to exploit internal scripting to be able to use C++ commands in the script editor. :P Just like you can exploit simplified scripting to be able to use internal scripting in the script editor, maybe you can do the same in internal scripting? Who knows.

FIQ

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Re: Back to VVVVVV
« Reply #91 on: November 09, 2012, 02:56:42 PM »
If you don't want the game to say 21/20 trinkets, and give only one star, I think you can place a trinket in an inaccessible room with a text editor.
I'd like that bonus trinket to stay hidden until you stumble upon it for yourself, so the max is going to stay at 20 :)

It's a shame that it only gives one star though, nothing I can do about it.

In that case, it isn't possible. Unless we find a way to exploit internal scripting to be able to use C++ commands in the script editor. :P Just like you can exploit simplified scripting to be able to use internal scripting in the script editor, maybe you can do the same in internal scripting? Who knows.
C++ doesn't work like that, though.

avengah

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Re: Back to VVVVVV
« Reply #92 on: November 09, 2012, 04:22:51 PM »
Yeah, I suggested before that the game should check if you've got more than 20 trinkets when you reach Victoria, and if so, set trinkets = 20. This would fix the one star instead of two problem. Unfortunately, it's not possible. Trinkets can't be set to 20, or any other number, as far as we know. Trinkets can be awarded (along with dialogue), but not taken away.

FIQ

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Re: Back to VVVVVV
« Reply #93 on: November 09, 2012, 05:03:55 PM »
Yeah, I suggested before that the game should check if you've got more than 20 trinkets when you reach Victoria, and if so, set trinkets = 20. This would fix the one star instead of two problem. Unfortunately, it's not possible. Trinkets can't be set to 20, or any other number, as far as we know. Trinkets can be awarded (along with dialogue), but not taken away.
Theoretically there's a solution -- by awarding 4294967295 trinkets.

That "solution" is however not really a good idea.. :P

EDIT to clarify: VVVVVV can execute ~200k commands per second (also depends on what you request it to do). Assuming this, it would take around 7 hours to give that many trinkets in the optimal way.

The solution I realized *would* be viable, if Terry actually decided to use the optimal data type for a trinket amount (8-bit integer) instead of a 32-bit one.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 05:17:44 PM by FIQ »

avengah

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Re: Back to VVVVVV
« Reply #94 on: November 09, 2012, 07:20:26 PM »
Since trinkets are expressed in words, how would this work if you had that many of them? Or does it start using numbers after a certain point?

On another note, I may have found a solution to your Gravitron bug. This isn't thoroughly tested, so I can't guarantee success, but simply leave the room and return before attempting another Gravitron and you might find it loads properly. If this does work, then there are two ways you could implement it; one is to have the terminals say "The Gravitrons have temporarily overheated. Please come back later." You'd have a flag set when you use a Gravitron and clear it as soon as you enter the next room. The other solution would be to warp to the next room after finishing a gravitron, so you'd have to walk e.g. left to get back to the room with the Gravitron terminals. I repeat: I haven't thoroughly tested this so it may not work... but if it does, there will be no need for the warning message about chaining them.

blue626

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Re: Back to VVVVVV
« Reply #95 on: November 10, 2012, 03:09:34 AM »
Since trinkets are expressed in words, how would this work if you had that many of them? Or does it start using numbers after a certain point?

In the "Internal commands" thread, people said that if you get more than 50 trinkets or less than 0 trinkets (the last one only works if you edit the .vvvvvv file, obviously), it says "Lots out of twenty". Every # of trinkets >-1 and <51 it says the number in words.
(I understand why you didn't read the whole thread. It has too many replies!).

EDIT: Why would Terry give a 32-bit value for the # of trinkets anyway? Only Terry knows. From what people discovered (mentioned above), he knew from the start that he would need a maximum of 50 trinkets for the game. 8 bits are enough for that. Actually, 6 bits are enough for that and 5 bits are enough for 20, but apparently you can only set a # to have 2x bits, possibly because x bits make 2x numbers... I don't know much about programming.
What would happen when you give the 232th trinket, anyway? Wouldn't VVVVVV crash, like when using play(16) because x in play(x) has 4 bits and 24=16?

EDIT 2: I don't see how can FIQ's solution be a solution even if it wouldn't take 7 hours. The number he mentioned is 232-1, that is equal to all 32 bits being 1. Would that cause anything besides saying "Lots out of Twenty"?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 03:29:15 AM by blue626 »

FIQ

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Re: Back to VVVVVV
« Reply #96 on: November 10, 2012, 04:19:23 AM »
Since trinkets are expressed in words, how would this work if you had that many of them? Or does it start using numbers after a certain point?

In the "Internal commands" thread, people said that if you get more than 50 trinkets or less than 0 trinkets (the last one only works if you edit the .vvvvvv file, obviously), it says "Lots out of twenty". Every # of trinkets >-1 and <51 it says the number in words.
(I understand why you didn't read the whole thread. It has too many replies!).

EDIT: Why would Terry give a 32-bit value for the # of trinkets anyway? Only Terry knows. From what people discovered (mentioned above), he knew from the start that he would need a maximum of 50 trinkets for the game. 8 bits are enough for that. Actually, 6 bits are enough for that and 5 bits are enough for 20, but apparently you can only set a # to have 2x bits, possibly because x bits make 2x numbers... I don't know much about programming.
What would happen when you give the 232th trinket, anyway? Wouldn't VVVVVV crash, like when using play(16) because x in play(x) has 4 bits and 24=16?

EDIT 2: I don't see how can FIQ's solution be a solution even if it wouldn't take 7 hours. The number he mentioned is 232-1, that is equal to all 32 bits being 1. Would that cause anything besides saying "Lots out of Twenty"?
Trinket amount wrap around 4294967296 trinkets, so if you award 232-1, you will end up with 1 less trinket than you began with (i.e. 20).

EDIT: Yes, it should crash, but strangely this didn't happen in this case (I tried to set trinket amount to 4294967297 and ended up with 1 trinket due to the wrapping)

EDIT2: There's a bug in 2.1 in custom levels regarding the maps that occasionally exposes all of the 10th column (The Tower in the normal game). Occasionally, this also happens in my level -- but the column happens to be the dimensional tunnel, and is only exposed when *in* it. How fitting :P
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 05:35:40 AM by FIQ »

FIQ

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Re: Back to VVVVVV
« Reply #97 on: November 10, 2012, 06:12:46 AM »
Version 1.1 has been released!
Download it from the first post.

avengah

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Re: Back to VVVVVV
« Reply #98 on: November 10, 2012, 08:35:51 AM »
I haven't downloaded it yet, but I was going to say an easy way to fix the repeating bonus trinket bug would be to simply add one line to the achievementcheck script.

Before:

ifflag(99,achievementcheck2)

After:

ifflag(46,stop)
ifflag(99,achievementcheck2)

Flag 46 is set when you get the bonus trinket. There, it doesn't repeat!

As for forcing the player to teleport after getting the bonus, this can be done by using internal scripting to move the player to TB and teleport to the hub after getting the bonus trinket, I think.

EDIT: Playing V1.1 now, and it still says "Press ENTER to activate terminal".

EDIT 2: Small graphical glitch on the left edge of Very Good, Here's A Trinket. Finally, when you reach the ending and read Vita's note, you want to set the checkpoint there. I pressed R and ended up back at the Polar Dimension PS.

Oh, and it seems I was wrong about going to the next room before doing another Gravitron. Sorry about that...
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 09:48:50 AM by avengah »

FIQ

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Re: Back to VVVVVV
« Reply #99 on: November 10, 2012, 05:28:53 PM »
EDIT: Playing V1.1 now, and it still says "Press ENTER to activate terminal".
Huh?
I just opened Back to VVVVVV 1.1 and it doesn't show something like that...
I also tried in 2.0, still no text like that.

What did it say the version was when you opened the level?

avengah

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Re: Back to VVVVVV
« Reply #100 on: November 10, 2012, 05:58:52 PM »
V1.1. It's definitely updated, as you're automatically teleported after the bonus trinket. Anyway, at the start, I move slightly right to talk to Vermilion, then left to talk to Vita but not very far - only about half a square, so I'm still next to the terminal. I'll try again... Yeah, the same result.

I think the same happens after you get the "One remains" message - you're in front of T0 so you get the Press ENTER message.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 06:02:16 PM by avengah »

FIQ

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Re: Back to VVVVVV
« Reply #101 on: November 11, 2012, 05:46:29 AM »
V1.1. It's definitely updated, as you're automatically teleported after the bonus trinket. Anyway, at the start, I move slightly right to talk to Vermilion, then left to talk to Vita but not very far - only about half a square, so I'm still next to the terminal. I'll try again... Yeah, the same result.

I think the same happens after you get the "One remains" message - you're in front of T0 so you get the Press ENTER message.
Oh, *that* terminal. I was thinking on the terminal at the start of the level (when at the ship)!

I'll not be able to solve this without doing heavy modifications to that room, so I'll think about it.

blue626

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Re: Back to VVVVVV
« Reply #102 on: November 12, 2012, 01:18:53 PM »
Since trinkets are expressed in words, how would this work if you had that many of them? Or does it start using numbers after a certain point?

(off-topic text)

EDIT 2: I don't see how can FIQ's solution be a solution even if it wouldn't take 7 hours. The number he mentioned is 232-1, that is equal to all 32 bits being 1. Would that cause anything besides saying "Lots out of Twenty"?
Trinket amount wrap around 4294967296 trinkets, so if you award 232-1, you will end up with 1 less trinket than you began with (i.e. 20).

I guess I misunderstood... I forgot that you would already have 20 trinkets before doing that.

Since trinkets are expressed in words, how would this work if you had that many of them? Or does it start using numbers after a certain point?

(off-topic text)

What would happen when you give the 232th trinket, anyway? Wouldn't VVVVVV crash, like when using play(16) because x in play(x) has 4 bits and 24=16?

(unrelated text)
EDIT: Yes, it should crash, but strangely this didn't happen in this case (I tried to set trinket amount to 4294967297 and ended up with 1 trinket due to the wrapping)

The wrapping is weird. Did you wait 7 hours to test that!? :o

On-topic: Note: I'm using VVVVVV 2.0 and I was playing v.1.1 of your level.
I played part of your level, and I noticed that some of :viridian:'s dialog when already in Dimension VVVVVV is grey. IIRC, :viridian:'s dialog while still on the ship was cyan, and all the other dialogs are the right color.

Everything in Dimension VVVVVV that wasn't destroyed or modified seemed equal as in the main game! :o

In the puzzle/maze area, you don't need to check the amp to see if you warped around or not (Actually, using 2.0., it's impossible for me). You can either check if the CP stayed lit or not, or check if :viridian: is split into 2 parts while on the edge of the screen.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 01:21:55 PM by blue626 »

FIQ

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Re: Back to VVVVVV
« Reply #103 on: November 12, 2012, 01:52:44 PM »
Since trinkets are expressed in words, how would this work if you had that many of them? Or does it start using numbers after a certain point?

(off-topic text)

EDIT 2: I don't see how can FIQ's solution be a solution even if it wouldn't take 7 hours. The number he mentioned is 232-1, that is equal to all 32 bits being 1. Would that cause anything besides saying "Lots out of Twenty"?
Trinket amount wrap around 4294967296 trinkets, so if you award 232-1, you will end up with 1 less trinket than you began with (i.e. 20).

I guess I misunderstood... I forgot that you would already have 20 trinkets before doing that.

Since trinkets are expressed in words, how would this work if you had that many of them? Or does it start using numbers after a certain point?

(off-topic text)

What would happen when you give the 232th trinket, anyway? Wouldn't VVVVVV crash, like when using play(16) because x in play(x) has 4 bits and 24=16?

(unrelated text)
EDIT: Yes, it should crash, but strangely this didn't happen in this case (I tried to set trinket amount to 4294967297 and ended up with 1 trinket due to the wrapping)

The wrapping is weird. Did you wait 7 hours to test that!? :o

On-topic: Note: I'm using VVVVVV 2.0 and I was playing v.1.1 of your level.
I played part of your level, and I noticed that some of :viridian:'s dialog when already in Dimension VVVVVV is grey. IIRC, :viridian:'s dialog while still on the ship was cyan, and all the other dialogs are the right color.

Everything in Dimension VVVVVV that wasn't destroyed or modified seemed equal as in the main game! :o

In the puzzle/maze area, you don't need to check the amp to see if you warped around or not (Actually, using 2.0., it's impossible for me). You can either check if the CP stayed lit or not, or check if :viridian: is split into 2 parts while on the edge of the screen.
I playtested the level on 2.0, Viridian's dialog should stay the same color no matter the version.

Yeah, I know you don't need to use the map, but it might help. The reason that there's checkpoints at all is for 2.0 users.

Hilbert

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Re: Back to VVVVVV
« Reply #104 on: November 12, 2012, 04:42:02 PM »
If you go above 50, it will say 'Lots out of Twenty'. Same with under zero. Try it with -80819827812703287798147987108724897248978493. :P