Author Topic: What not to put in your VVVVVV Level  (Read 36353 times)

Info Teddy

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Re: What not to put in your VVVVVV Level
« Reply #165 on: June 03, 2018, 04:24:57 PM »
167. A terminal that can only be activated in free-fall, requiring frame-perfect precision to proceed.  That's assuming it's possible at all.
depends on what you mean by "free-fall"

your x and y speed have to be within a certain, small threshold to be able to activate terminals

in the case of my "annoying terminal" level, the 1 frame you can activate the terminal has viridian on the hyperspeed platform as well

Peridot

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never knew this thread existed...
« Reply #166 on: June 03, 2018, 08:19:04 PM »
168. Overly ambitious room designs that you KNOW would never work given the restrictions of VVVVVV.

Bruce Michez

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Re: What not to put in your VVVVVV Level
« Reply #167 on: June 04, 2018, 06:59:25 PM »
167. A terminal that can only be activated in free-fall, requiring frame-perfect precision to proceed.  That's assuming it's possible at all.  I'll update this post afterwards.
depends on what you mean by "free-fall"

your x and y speed have to be within a certain, small threshold to be able to activate terminals

in the case of my "annoying terminal" level, the 1 frame you can activate the terminal has viridian on the hyperspeed platform as well

Okay, just pulled it off successfully.  Even so, it would indeed be annoying to come across that challenge in a normal level, so:
169. A terminal that can only be activated within a window of 1 frame, especially if it also requires extremely precise positioning.

SteveGamer68

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Re: What not to put in your VVVVVV Level
« Reply #168 on: August 02, 2018, 05:55:46 AM »
170. Overly complicated room and you get nothing for clearing it.  :'(
Also sorry for bumping

Info Teddy

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Re: What not to put in your VVVVVV Level
« Reply #169 on: August 02, 2018, 06:03:28 AM »
Also sorry for bumping
friendly reminder bumping isnt bad if its ontopic and adds something to the topic

if its not both of these things its B A D

Balneor

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Re: What not to put in your VVVVVV Level
« Reply #170 on: August 06, 2018, 02:37:01 AM »
171 : Using more checkpoints than actually needed.
It's generally subtle, but once in a while you'll notice an over-abundance of these objects in pointless places, it's pretty funny when you notice it (And I'm talking about checkpoints found during linear gameplay, because the overworld ones's function is a bit different). Most of the time after overcoming section n1, you'll see checkpoint n1 at the end of it (or in some breaker-type of room), and then checkpoint n2 shows-up, right before section n2 in a following room ! Be smart about their placements; The less oversights, the better level.

172 : Making us wait for absolutely, LITERALLY no reason.
Note that I am not complaining about dialogue cutscenes, those have a reason to exist compared to the ones I'll complain about...
I'm really, reeeeeeally sick of having to wait seconds worth of time for moving platforms to backtrack, ennemies to move out of the way... solely so I can proceed forward. I want to play the game, move Viridian around, press buttons on my keyboard, so please build rooms in such a way that I never stop doing that, that the game's fluidity never stops at any point. This is mandatory even to the tiniest gameplay portion you're ever going to build (Although it's more relevant to levels based on gameplay). And this improves future replayability so, so much.
For that, there are tricks such as making us leave and re-enter the incriminated room (Doing a "reset"), by putting a checkpoint in the previous one; using room warping to make moving platforms reach the player sooner, use warp-tokens or gotorooms scripts... whatever you choose, be effective.
Every single custom on the planet has it to some degree (The best ones are not excluded, though the lesser ones tend to have it systematically), so be very wary of this issue. Players will be grateful, me the first, even if they don't realise it.

173 : Bad overworld building.
The overworld does not only consist of fancy-looking areas, or memorable environments, it's also about good mobility. A bad example with this picture :

Viridian comes from the right, and the way to go is on the left, however in order to reach it I need to flip twice. Well, the closest ceiling from me is exactly 3 rooms above. So you tell me that to simply get past that 1-block higher ground, I need to wait around 5 freaking seconds of nothingness ? Putting a ceiling close to the ground (Along with backing to look good) which functions as an extra path you can take would have been so much better, quicker, and less boring...
And you may laugh at that example, but I see stuff like that frequently, sometimes even worse.
To test if your overworld is convenient to wave through, assuming you roughly know its overall layout (Because this becomes a problem only when the player have already explored the zone once, and needs to go through it again. This matters the most in level types such as Dimension Open where you constantly need to go somewhere else through the overworld after clearing a section, but every levels needs it in at some degree): Go through it a bunch of times (Or ask help from playtesters) from point A to B of which you'll decide, and if there's anything you can think of, that would add to make travelling faster, then add it right away (If, of course, it doesn't ruin with any other aspects of the level). Take a few notes from VVVVVV main game's overworld.

Also, when you have a big overworld, especially full of empty rooms (The ones Viridian enters and leaves in less than a second), please fill them with something, at least some random lone backing tile ! It reinforces the fact that you are inbounds in the actual level, and that you have exploration and memorization of the layouts for future reference, waiting to be done. Doing otherwise would make it looks like you've somehow gone out-of-boundaries (or in outer space for that matter) which is way less pleasant and motivating. Who would want to explore an overworld that's completely empty and with unnatural-looking structures (Perfect 90 corners, horizontal/vertical bars) all over the place ?!
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 10:36:19 AM by Balneor »

SteveGamer68

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Re: What not to put in your VVVVVV Level
« Reply #171 on: August 06, 2018, 04:41:10 AM »
(Tell me if any of the stuff was already posted)
173. Excessive use of flash. Seriously, it could cause seizure! (not that I have epilepsy or anything but to warn using too many flashes)

Info Teddy

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Re: What not to put in your VVVVVV Level
« Reply #172 on: August 06, 2018, 02:42:27 PM »
171 : Using more checkpoints than actually needed.
It's generally subtle, but once in a while you'll notice an over-abundance of these objects in pointless places, it's pretty funny when you notice it (And I'm talking about checkpoints found during linear gameplay, because the overworld ones's function is a bit different). Most of the time after overcoming section n1, you'll see checkpoint n1 at the end of it (or in some breaker-type of room), and then checkpoint n2 shows-up, right before section n2 in a following room ! Be smart about their placements; The less oversights, the better level.
why is this a problem? as long it doesn't look like 'the warning' i don't have a problem with it. it's better to use more than needed than to use less than needed.
173. Excessive use of flash. Seriously, it could cause seizure! (not that I have epilepsy or anything but to warn using too many flashes)
this is why i always disable screen effects if it's not a level i'm working on or it's a level that i know having screen effects on won't be detrimental (abuse of flash is still bad)

Balneor

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Re: What not to put in your VVVVVV Level
« Reply #173 on: August 07, 2018, 01:10:54 AM »
why is this a problem? as long it doesn't look like 'the warning' i don't have a problem with it. it's better to use more than needed than to use less than needed.

I agree that it really isn't as important as some of the other rules out there, but personally it would be harder to take some random level seriously if it had this issue and if I noticed it.

Info Teddy

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Re: What not to put in your VVVVVV Level
« Reply #174 on: August 07, 2018, 06:55:46 AM »
I agree that it really isn't as important as some of the other rules out there, but personally it would be harder to take some random level seriously if it had this issue and if I noticed it.
having tons of checkpoints instills a feeling of safety and that you won't have to redo entire paths again (they dont even have to be challenges, they can just be long)

Balneor

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Re: What not to put in your VVVVVV Level
« Reply #175 on: August 07, 2018, 11:09:39 AM »
having tons of checkpoints instills a feeling of safety and that you won't have to redo entire paths again (they dont even have to be challenges, they can just be long)

Ah; so in the end that rule end-up being mostly subjective because I personally don't get scared by a lack of checkpoints very often, enough for it to be something I'm not caring about. Fine, you can disregard it

Xandog01

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Re: What not to put in your VVVVVV Level
« Reply #176 on: August 11, 2018, 08:19:34 AM »
I'm not sure if its already here, but a room in a level that you touch a checkpoint right when you enter, and there is no way out. (Pressing R wouldn't work)

allison

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Re: What not to put in your VVVVVV Level
« Reply #177 on: August 11, 2018, 11:45:50 PM »
psa: you can break pretty much any of these rules if you really want to/have a good reason for it

Info Teddy

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no we cant pin this post and yes smf is too limited
« Reply #178 on: August 12, 2018, 11:10:55 AM »
psa: you can break pretty much any of these rules if you really want to/have a good reason for it
seconded

can we pin this post or is smf too limited :^^^^^)

SteveGamer68

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Re: What not to put in your VVVVVV Level
« Reply #179 on: August 13, 2018, 09:06:42 AM »
174. Have a room-like area that you cannot escape (there's no scripting inside that room or something) with a checkpoint inside the roomcage, causing a partial of a partial-softlock* (you can move around but cannot progress the map in any way except for exiting. But if you for some reason decided to save at that cage, then you're doomed and forced to restart the level.).







*: There is no official term for it yet.