Author Topic: Zephyr's Mini 10x10  (Read 727 times)

Zephyrite

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Zephyr's Mini 10x10
« on: October 07, 2018, 12:34:32 PM »
Hey, everybody on this mb!
I finished my level!
Thanks to everybody on here, but mostly to these kind people:
Pattoo and Alexa
for telling me that internal exists, more to alexa for also linking to a great website full of alot of what helped me make zone c.(and the final zone)
Thanks to Dav999 for helping me fix my scripts in zone b.
Thanks to Bruce, for telling me why that thing in the Pit Of Despair (formerly named Pit Of Agony) happened, but I kept it in because i thought it looked cool.
And Most importantly, thanks to you, for playing this level.
Any bugs i somehow didn't notice/typos/bad design/difficulty issues
you should let me know in a post.
o i updated it too the second download is the updated version
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 03:03:03 AM by Zephyrite »

Bruce Michez

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Re: Zephyr's Mini 10x10
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2018, 02:19:38 PM »
Definitely one of the most fascinating first levels I've come across, even if it does have some rough edges.  It really made me think in a way that VVVVVV usually doesn't.

I particularly liked the fast conveyors, especially since I didn't know that was possible until, well, just now.

You might want to nerf "MORE COLORS?!" (6,10) somehow, though.  I resorted to invincibility to get through it in my playthrough, as I could not get past the fast vertical pink box there.  I actually thought it might be outright impossible until I managed to get past that box legitimately in the editor.

Lollipop

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Re: Zephyr's Mini 10x10
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2018, 08:04:21 PM »
this level is actually super clever holy

especially the part with the lasers, that was really interesting. i'd really like to see you do more stuff with this laser mechanic later

some things:

- in the very first room, perhaps you should get rid of the playtesting unlock script lol
- making the solution for a puzzle require knowledge of other games is kinda mean (i havent played zelda sooo)
- there are a lot of holes everywhere, whats up with these
- deactivating the purple lasers after getting the cyan lasers deactivated is impossible??? (unless im missing something) had to cheat my way through it
- the super fast boxes are cool and all, but they get annoying quick
- maze of summons is a super cool room

the level could use some polish, but the concepts presented are actually really interesting.

hope to see more cool stuff from you!


« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 08:21:08 PM by Lollipop »

shiny k

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Re: Zephyr's Mini 10x10
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2018, 10:25:08 PM »
this level is pretty great for a first level
i have pretty much the same complaints as everyone else:
- its impossible to reactivate the purple lasers without invincibility
- the fast pink boxes are annoying more than anything
- you should remove playtesting things (like the unlock in the first room) when releasing your level
- cutscene bars still stay when you do the script once youve got all 4 trinkets
- deactivated yellow lasers add cutscene bars for some reason
- a lot of scripts play a terminal sound at the start, you probably shouldnt use the say(-1) method cuz it does that

honestly my biggest gripe is that it feels more like a script/entity/oddity (vvvvvv has a lot of the latter hahaha) test more than anything, rather than a formulated level
this is really unique and fun, though!!
keep up the good work!

Bruce Michez

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Re: Zephyr's Mini 10x10
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2018, 02:34:49 AM »
- deactivating the purple lasers after getting the cyan lasers deactivated is impossible??? (unless im missing something) had to cheat my way through it
- its impossible to reactivate the purple lasers without invincibility
Are you talking about going backwards through the lower half of "I'm a firin my lazor!"?  Getting under the purple laser on the right does look impossible, but it isn't.  It's actually not nearly as precise as trying to navigate your way into a normal 3-tile-high tunnel.

Also, in "Cyan Gate" you've got a checkpoint in an enemy's flight path, which can result in a lot of deaths (up to 8, in this case) if that square happens to be there when :viridian: respawns.

Zephyrite

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Re: Zephyr's Mini 10x10
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2018, 04:27:18 AM »
Thanks for all the positive feedback!
FYI this isn't really my first level, I've made other levels before this, but I'm not going to upload them because some of them are really awful.
But it is my first level posted on this mb, and the first level ever made by me with internal (I still don't understand some of it, to think, I've did all that with just ONE command, and loads more exist to use... wow...)
Oh wow xd I forgot to remove my playtesting script that's awkward.
Sorry about the complaint about the fast moving purple boxes, I'll make them all move a bit slower in an update.
I sadly don't know how to make stuff not have cutscene bars, so I don't know how to fix the bugs with the 4 trinket script, and deactivating yellow lasers.
I really don't want to spend loads of time changing all my internal scripts from one method to another, just to remove terminal squeaks. Is it really that big of a deal?
As Bruce said above, it is actually possible to get under the purple laser, but maybe I should nerf that room to make it more obvious.
Sorry about the zelda 1 maze path complaint, I'll change the terminal to instead include a puzzle.
I'll move the checkpoint in cyan gate to be out of the enemy path.
I now see all the random holes xd i'll remove them, and i also remembered some holes i made in direct mode that look bad, I'll make them look good.
Oh, and here's how I figured out the fast conveyors.
I can change the speed of enemies and moving platforms.
A certain type of moving platform is a conveyor.
What if I change the speed of it?
I did that, and got a fast conveyor.
I also feel that challenge zone d could use a makeover.
But I don't have any ideas for what it should be about...
Besides Warp Tokens and crumbling blocks...


Balneor

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Re: Zephyr's Mini 10x10
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2018, 02:02:50 PM »
Not gonna lie, despite the negative impression you've given to me so far in the forums, I certaintly wasn't expecting something this much worth the detour.


The level isn't particularly clean nor polished in terms of the building aspect, but frankly that doesn't affect its gameplay in the slightest. Most of the shown gimmicks are quite interesting - and as you have written - will probably be worth having their own separate levels.

That said, let me speak about a few issues :

Before going on with the pictures, I'll express my opinion that the whole purple box gimmick could really be improved, because it requires more luck than anything else to get past them (as such speed anyways), and they aren't the most interesting out of the bunch. As other users said, lowering the speed down would probably fix it (Especially so you can conceivably dodge the vertical boxes).

(Picture 1 & 2, from left to right; top to bottom) : So I saw that you wisely put a "reset" room in "Moving Backwards"... but did not do so with the "Challenge Zone B (...)" one ? Especially when this room is significantly harder to pass than its brother. I say this because each time when failing that room, you must flip all the way to the room below and come back, while avoiding the scripts that unintentionally stop you from moving, which is lengthy. So it would be fitting to create another "reset" room, inside the left wall of "Moving Backwards".

(Pic 3 & 4) : There are no overworld music ( Music(4) ) at the "Challenge zone C  and  D" exit, nor in the room on its left, meaning you'll have to leave this place while keeping one of the corresponding area's music which is kinda unfitting. The same thing can be said about "The Pit of Despair", along with music scripts that are not properly extended to the whole path. Putting the fitting music script at the end of these rooms (Or an adjacent one) should be good.

(Pic 5) : The warp token's exit circled in red, is a bit too close to the other token on its right. Due to how you generally only have to move right in one of the "Lost?" room warp token maze (Containing the exit token, the one circled in red), there are times where you will leave that section, just to almost immediately get transported back to it again, pretty annoying. Moving the exit a bit to the left should easily fix it.

(Pic 6) : There is no space between the gravity line and spikes. By such a configuration, it is possible that the player unexpectedly dies while slowly trying to get through this small corridor, and generally stands out as a bad design kind of issue. Two ways to make this portion more polished, would be to either. lower the bottom spikes by one tile down, or. replace the bottom grav° line by a horizontal row of spikes (And removing those below). The whole challenge will stay the same.

(Pic 7) : The previous room already was frustrating enough to squeeze through due to the pink boxes, but in this one the ennemies are strategically placed to kill the unweary player. Not cool, especially when this level isn't entirely a gameplay one that this kind of stuff would be relevant to use.

(Pic 8 ) : Entering this room from the right side (Which you'll forcefully have to do to beat this custom) will kill the player if he was on the floor, because of the ennemies being right next to the room transition. Moving all of them 3-4 tiles to the left should let the player enough space to not die.





Overall, I'll recommend playing this partially innovative level only when the pink boxes's speed is nerfed in a update (Would make it as a whole much less frustrating to play). Some parts of section C and the entire section B really stands out and should definitely be played at least once. Will definitely look forward to more content of yours in the future, even if it means having to bear with such a behavior.


Zephyrite

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Re: Zephyr's Mini 10x10
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2018, 02:56:28 PM »
Ok, thanks for all the helpful things you've all pointed out, I've made an update fixing most of it (no reset room for Challenge Zone B 2:Now with passion because if i put it behind the left wall, you could skip part of the challenge. any other wall just leads to an already existing room)
if there are any other bugs (that i know how to fix, don't know how to remove the bars from the yellow laser without changing everything in the level)
please let me know

yes, i slowed down the speed of the vertical purple boxes, the speed is now set to 35, instead of 60.
it doesn't remove the challenge entirely, but it will hopefully make things less unfair.
Sorry if the new lost woods hint is too cryptic

Bruce Michez

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Re: Zephyr's Mini 10x10
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2018, 10:06:56 PM »
You might want to edit the original post to have the updated version of the level, too.

Zephyrite

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Re: Zephyr's Mini 10x10
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2018, 02:57:18 AM »
Thanks, doing that

Balneor

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Re: Zephyr's Mini 10x10
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2018, 02:10:04 PM »
(no reset room for Challenge Zone B 2:Now with passion because if i put it behind the left wall, you could skip part of the challenge. any other wall just leads to an already existing room)


Wouldn't doing something like this work ? I don't see how this would skip anything.


Otherwise, you won't hate me, but I took it upon myself to modify some of this level's gameplay, and I drastically changed the purple boxes's speed down to like 10-15 units; it still was quite frustrating before, now not much anymore. Also added a reset room at the beginning of the green lazors section. All of this is necessary, because I'm planning to add this to my level compilation, unless you disagree (Which can happend of course). The modified level is attached below so you can see what was done.