Author Topic: "Hidden Temple" - now version 2.1!  (Read 8552 times)

999999

  • Crewmate
  • *
  • Posts: 19
    • View Profile
Re: My first custom level: "Hidden Temple" - now version 2.0!
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2011, 01:13:04 PM »
EDIT: To clarify, when I try to click the download link, I get prompted to save or open "index.php".  Attempting to open the file brings up the very same prompt, which is very frustrating.
I see it too. Anyway, It seems that the file is downloaded completely. Rename the index.php file to the original name, including the original extension, and you will can to open it normally. It looks as a board issue, Terry, can you to look this?

EDIT: Only Firefox? I will see. Yeah. 8.0 and adove.
EDIT 2: SMF issue:
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=454734.0
« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 07:51:23 PM by 999999 »

MarsJenkar

  • Crewmate
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: My first custom level: "Hidden Temple" - now version 2.0!
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2011, 02:02:10 PM »
The improvements were nice, but I felt they weren't enough. :|

You know, since this is your first level, I thought I should help you out. I went into the editor and messed around with the level to make it look and run a bit smoother. I'll give you the version that I edited.

- I still kept the warp in the Pit because it's really fun to warp infinitly.
- I used a backing trick in, "The Shrine of the Silver Monkey" to make the monkey head look better
- I redid the password system (although my version is a little bit hastily done) so that it plays a different message once you find the password.
- Other minor changes in the backing

So, there you go. I've attached it to this post.

Okay, now that I've finally had the chance to look at your version, here are some comments I have.

- I suppose the infinite Pit thing is a matter of preference.  I may have versions with and without the infinite Pit.  Or maybe a compromise design.

- I see what you did with the backing regarding the spikes.  I'll admit the reason I didn't do that in all cases was that I was lazy, as well as disillusioned when the spikes with backing didn't work as spikes.  I'll probably deal with that the next time, in version 2.1.

- The password system in your version doesn't seem to work properly when I try it.  Every time I try and load the room and go from there, the password results as "already found".  Also, there's a reason that I designed the password system the way I did: It's very possible to use the password but die before the next checkpoint.  If that happens, the gravity line is back when Viridian respawns.  I personally don't like the idea of making a game unwinnable by design (or lack thereof); as a result, I deliberately built in the capability of reusing the one monitor to clear the gravity line again (albeit, in 2.0, without commentary by Viridian after the first time).  I may do something like you did with the first two monitors, though.

- Your version has a bit of a difficulty spike compared to mine.  I wonder if this is due to a disparity in our skill levels as players.  (Namely, that I'm worse; I would not be surprised.)  In any case, that's why the difficulty and design is what it is in my version--I wouldn't design a level I couldn't play myself.

- The reason the "maze" in the middle of the temple was only a maze was because I wanted it to look purely decorative when you first see it.  (This is so that fans of the original "Legends of the Hidden Temple" show might not realize it's part of a later segment of the game.)  Putting game elements in there defeats the purpose somewhat. ;)  I may have to redesign the maze with some extra challenge...preferably by adding some screen warps for the middle bit.  Also, as I said before, I personally don't like the idea of making a game unwinnable by design.

PJBottomz

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 700
  • Chibi Toast. It kicks your ass for miles.
    • View Profile
    • PJBottomz First Homepage
Re: My first custom level: "Hidden Temple" - now version 2.0!
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2011, 03:28:33 PM »
Okay, now that I've finally had the chance to look at your version, here are some comments I have.

- I suppose the infinite Pit thing is a matter of preference.  I may have versions with and without the infinite Pit.  Or maybe a compromise design.

That's true, I do actually prefer the infinite warp, and others might like the spikes. A version with both would be great, but how it would work is beyond me...

- I see what you did with the backing regarding the spikes.  I'll admit the reason I didn't do that in all cases was that I was lazy, as well as disillusioned when the spikes with backing didn't work as spikes.  I'll probably deal with that the next time, in version 2.1.

- The password system in your version doesn't seem to work properly when I try it.  Every time I try and load the room and go from there, the password results as "already found".  Also, there's a reason that I designed the password system the way I did: It's very possible to use the password but die before the next checkpoint.  If that happens, the gravity line is back when Viridian respawns.  I personally don't like the idea of making a game unwinnable by design (or lack thereof); as a result, I deliberately built in the capability of reusing the one monitor to clear the gravity line again (albeit, in 2.0, without commentary by Viridian after the first time).  I may do something like you did with the first two monitors, though.

The reason of it is because I set flags at the very beginning of the level that activate the special scripts that involve the password. If you don't start from the beginning of the level, you'll just get the "already found" message. And I didn't account for the "death before next checkpoint" thing. Of course, my version was incredibly sloppy and hastily done, so I can see your point. The best option is to set a script at the entrances of the rooms and around the checkpoint that checks a flag that can be set by the terminal with the password, and if the flag is on, go to a script that destroys the gravity lines. It's the proper way to do it so that you don't end up trapped.

- Your version has a bit of a difficulty spike compared to mine.  I wonder if this is due to a disparity in our skill levels as players.  (Namely, that I'm worse; I would not be surprised.)  In any case, that's why the difficulty and design is what it is in my version--I wouldn't design a level I couldn't play myself.

Actually, I probably suck worse than you do! I was playing with invincibility on, and I forgot to account for the fact that most people actually play with it off. That's more of an error on my part. ::)

- The reason the "maze" in the middle of the temple was only a maze was because I wanted it to look purely decorative when you first see it.  (This is so that fans of the original "Legends of the Hidden Temple" show might not realize it's part of a later segment of the game.)  Putting game elements in there defeats the purpose somewhat. ;)  I may have to redesign the maze with some extra challenge...preferably by adding some screen warps for the middle bit.  Also, as I said before, I personally don't like the idea of making a game unwinnable by design.

I guess adding the one-way walls in there was kind of useless, especially so many of them. But just seeing those empty rooms kind of tempted me to use them, unfortunately. :-\ I guess they were pretty mean, especially since they required more attention. I would probably get stuck in there multiple times...

All of your points are very good points that I should probably consider if I ever edit some one else's level, and then post it for the person to see. :)

MarsJenkar

  • Crewmate
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: My first custom level: "Hidden Temple" - now version 2.0!
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2011, 05:42:57 PM »
- I suppose the infinite Pit thing is a matter of preference.  I may have versions with and without the infinite Pit.  Or maybe a compromise design.

That's true, I do actually prefer the infinite warp, and others might like the spikes. A version with both would be great, but how it would work is beyond me...

Probably by leaving enough spikes in to be dangerous, but leaving a gap in the middle.  (Hey, I never said it was a perfect compromise.)


- The password system in your version doesn't seem to work properly when I try it.  Every time I try and load the room and go from there, the password results as "already found".  Also, there's a reason that I designed the password system the way I did: It's very possible to use the password but die before the next checkpoint.  If that happens, the gravity line is back when Viridian respawns.  I personally don't like the idea of making a game unwinnable by design (or lack thereof); as a result, I deliberately built in the capability of reusing the one monitor to clear the gravity line again (albeit, in 2.0, without commentary by Viridian after the first time).  I may do something like you did with the first two monitors, though.

The reason of it is because I set flags at the very beginning of the level that activate the special scripts that involve the password.  If you don't start from the beginning of the level, you'll just get the "already found" message.

I never saw the scripts work the way they were supposed to, because (as commented below) I tend to run through levels with invincibility mode off.  And I couldn't even get past the King's Storeroom that way.


And I didn't account for the "death before next checkpoint" thing. Of course, my version was incredibly sloppy and hastily done, so I can see your point. The best option is to set a script at the entrances of the rooms and around the checkpoint that checks a flag that can be set by the terminal with the password, and if the flag is on, go to a script that destroys the gravity lines. It's the proper way to do it so that you don't end up trapped.

I think my solution works okay, though.  If the "got the password" flag is already on, then if Viridian activates the console again, he's "free to go", so to speak, as soon as the gravity lines are destroyed.  No redundant comments about how literal the password is.  I'm thinking of using that flag with the other two terminals, so that if he "looks" at them with the flag set, he says something to the effect of "No, not this one...." without the terminal text displaying at all.


- Your version has a bit of a difficulty spike compared to mine.  I wonder if this is due to a disparity in our skill levels as players.  (Namely, that I'm worse; I would not be surprised.)  In any case, that's why the difficulty and design is what it is in my version--I wouldn't design a level I couldn't play myself.

Actually, I probably suck worse than you do! I was playing with invincibility on, and I forgot to account for the fact that most people actually play with it off. That's more of an error on my part. ::)

Hehehe.  It's all right, I forget it's even there. ;)


- The reason the "maze" in the middle of the temple was only a maze was because I wanted it to look purely decorative when you first see it.  (This is so that fans of the original "Legends of the Hidden Temple" show might not realize it's part of a later segment of the game.)  Putting game elements in there defeats the purpose somewhat. ;)  I may have to redesign the maze with some extra challenge...preferably by adding some screen warps for the middle bit.  Also, as I said before, I personally don't like the idea of making a game unwinnable by design.

I guess adding the one-way walls in there was kind of useless, especially so many of them. But just seeing those empty rooms kind of tempted me to use them, unfortunately. :-\ I guess they were pretty mean, especially since they required more attention. I would probably get stuck in there multiple times...

Well, I have given the maze a redesign, and I'll include it in the next release.  It retains the mostly-decorative look, and is never unwinnable (unless one takes the same wrong path(s) every time), but it is possible to go the wrong way and get sent back more or less to the beginning.  Screen warps FTW!


All of your points are very good points that I should probably consider if I ever edit some one else's level, and then post it for the person to see. :)

;)  I guess the lesson here is: Always remember that the designer may have had their reasons for doing things the way they did.  Still, your suggestions were good, and I'm definitely going to be more careful with the backing, especially where spikes are involved.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 05:50:34 PM by MarsJenkar »

MarsJenkar

  • Crewmate
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: "Hidden Temple" - now version 2.1!
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2011, 06:22:03 PM »
Sorry for the double post, but given the time since my last post, and the release of the new version of this map, I figure it's warranted.

Yep, version 2.1 of the map is out.  It can be found in my very first post, alongside the other two versions released thus far.  This will likely be my last release of this map, unless I have a good reason to meddle with it further.

Here's a list of changes:

- Used Direct Mode to change backing around spikes.
- Updated graphics in the final gauntlet.
- Updated the maze.  Now it's more than just filler; there's actually some (not too much) thinking required to get through.
- Added a credits terminal near the end.
- Updated the scripting at the entrance and in the Room of the Secret Password.  The scripting for the latter remains simple, but it gets less verbose after the password is found.
- Made change to The Pit again.  It now has a gap in the middle, but remains dangerous to the unwary.

Anyhow, now it's time for me to move on to the next map.  I have a few ideas, but we'll see how it comes....
« Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 06:23:57 PM by MarsJenkar »

PJBottomz

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 700
  • Chibi Toast. It kicks your ass for miles.
    • View Profile
    • PJBottomz First Homepage
Re: "Hidden Temple" - now version 2.1!
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2011, 06:40:52 PM »
I loved version 2.1 of this level! :-* I especially loved the final challenge edits! :)

Damn It AL to Hell

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 492
  • Mm?
    • View Profile
Re: "Hidden Temple" - now version 2.1!
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2011, 06:49:09 PM »
I loved version 2.1 of this level! :-* I especially loved the final challenge edits! :)

Amen to that, you're doing a fine job Mars, keep it goin'.  :)

Sendy

  • Professor
  • ****
  • Posts: 163
  • Progenitor of the Great Spike Incident of 4
    • View Profile
    • My music at soundcloud
Re: "Hidden Temple" - now version 2.1!
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2011, 06:55:37 AM »
It's super nice to see attention being paid to the fine details. Too many levels are 'slapped on the net' without any finetuning to the gameplay or aesthetics, so hopefully this is the beginning of a new trend across the board :)

Pyrite

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 330
  • New name who dis
    • View Profile
    • http://you.ar/a/nidi/ot.shtml
Re: "Hidden Temple" - now version 2.1!
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2012, 04:17:29 PM »
I won! And only got impaled 158 times!