distractionware forums

VVVVVV => VVVVVV Levels => Topic started by: pattoo1234 on June 01, 2017, 05:50:11 pm

Title: Level Making Showdown
Post by: pattoo1234 on June 01, 2017, 05:50:11 pm
Let the contest begin! Here is my level: Fear Factory. In this level, you must go through some obstacle-filled rooms to rescue the crew from the evil being that controls the factory!
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: lol...ipops2 on June 01, 2017, 05:51:34 pm
AW YEAH, PUT ON TEH OBLIGATORY MOOSIC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0I7gwkxryo
(recommend to be put on loop)
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: pattoo1234 on June 01, 2017, 06:54:20 pm
Do you like my level? Or should I wait for 5tr4 to post his level?
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: Not Sure on June 01, 2017, 10:05:52 pm
I must be doing it wrong. I spend over an hour on nearly every screen I make.
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: uugr on June 01, 2017, 10:09:48 pm
OVER AN HOUR? A full HOUR? That's preposterous!

I have a good rule of thumb: if it takes more than three minutes, four at the most, then it's not real level design.

 (/s, but it kinda depends on the level/room style. the level i'm making right now is about half an hour per room, core retrieval was like three-four because scripting.)

EDIT: Oh, also, I completed your level in three minutes, pattoo. All trinkets, too. I'd think, now that there's a real incentive for a decent level to be made, you'd spend more energy on your levels, not less. If that level took you more than half an hour, I'd be genuinely worried. It's completely insane.
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: allison on June 02, 2017, 04:59:53 am
I must be doing it wrong. I spend over an hour on nearly every screen I make.
It's best to spend a lot of time on design. I've been working on a level for several months now (though admittedly not consistently)
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: mrytp on June 02, 2017, 01:00:42 pm
For pattoo's and 5tr4's levels I'm going to write a review while I play the level.

1. Pattoo's level:
- Still no screenshots or level info in the OP.
- Not a big deal but the level has no author or description.
+ It's good how you have actually used music + roomnames this time.
+ The mirror image rooms are pretty cool.
- The trinket is way too easy.
+ At first I was annoyed you covered up the bottom of the screen with the roomname but "Or is there?" is quite clever.
+ The electric shocks are cool and don't last too long like in your other level.
+ "Grinding Gears" looks good and is original.
+ You have used scripting.
- I didn't mind you copying my idea before but the power off switch is a little too similar to Prisma's power off switch.
Your level  (http://i.imgur.com/cuRKtbg.png) My level (http://i.imgur.com/sjKhhmS.png)
- It's ok to keep the tileset, music & colour the same throughout the whole level if the theme is the same but you could have had different tilesets for different areas (e.g the mirrored rooms could have a different tileset to the conveyor rooms)

Overall, the level was ok. I would have liked more rooms and areas with other tilesets but I am glad you chose quality over quantity.
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: cheesefactory on June 02, 2017, 07:47:39 pm
Quote
It's good how you have actually used music + roomnames this time.

Reminds me of when people exclaim, "Wow! Trump acted like a politician. That's unbelievable!"

It's amazing what can happen if you set extremely low standards...
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: fraZ0R on June 03, 2017, 12:29:56 pm
Edit:I made the level!!
Its called Iota. It has 3 trinkets.
(http://imgur.com/06tkuvO.png)
(http://imgur.com/9XjAOGr.png)
Edit 2: vote on who's level you think is better here http://www.strawpoll.me/13110127/r
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: mrytp on June 04, 2017, 04:44:26 pm
Review Part 2:
5tr4:
+ You have screenshots in your post and the level has a description & author (better than pattoo)
+ You have used direct mode, music and roomnames
+ The divide sign looks cool
+ 'Cascade' also looks cool
- The trinket room is too glitchy and annoying
- The transition into the elevator room looks weird (going from lab to space station)
- Don't put tiles on the bottom row
- Don't use moving platforms in warping rooms because they glitch out
- There are too many different paths after 'What goes up'
- Now I'm stuck in 'Dead End' and I will have to start the level over to get out. Brilliant level design!

Overall it started off well but once you leave the lab everything falls apart and what was that ending? Pattoo's level was better.
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: fraZ0R on June 04, 2017, 05:16:20 pm
The dead end room has spikes. The trinket room glitching out is used in 2 of your points and I used the moving platforms in it on purpose. Them glitching out looks cool and makes a good challenge.
And most of the stuff in pattoo's level is copied from other levels. That come with the game. The electric shock is from Soul Searching. You literally gave pattoo points for using scripting but not me. You gave pattoo points for covering the bottom row with the roomname but you deducted points from me for doing the same thing. You gave pattoo tons of points for stuff i do all the time , but I dont get points for those. And come on , you don't give me points for having the right amount of difficulty in trinket challenges? Or for not having repeating scripts?
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: uugr on June 04, 2017, 07:29:44 pm
Hmmm. It's a hard choice, but I think I might actually say pattoo's is better, slightly. Not by much.

Iota gets points for some decent Direct Mode at the beginning... but that's pretty much it. Honestly, the more I think about it, the worse Iota seems and the better Fear Factory seems (they're both terrible though).
- Pattoo's level gets points for actually being a full 5x5 map. It's 25 rooms, how could you have a hard time with this, 5tr4?
- The last area looks like it was made in three seconds... Jesus, 5tr4, this is atrocious.
- Iota has out-of-sync enemies and uneven borders. Fear Factory has neither.
- Iota's scripting is horrible. Fear Factory's is dull, but this is like almost VXVXVX-level. "Thank you Virdian! Thanks."
- I don't know which one I'd say is "more fun"... maybe pattoo's? They were both short and annoying.
- Neither level has a single good original or even SEMI-original idea, but at least the delay blocks haven't been done to death. Yeah, they've been used before, but pattoo's usage of them was different that Soul Searching's, slightly.

Quote from: 5tr4
You don't give me points for having the right amount of difficulty in trinket challenges?

No, because your trinket challenges are luck-based/really easy/no-challenge. It's not any better than pattoo's, you both had one freebie trinket.

Quote from: 5tr4
Or for not having repeating scripts?

I mean, I guess that's one thing your level has over pattoo's? It's not really impressive to have non-repeating scripts, though.

Quote from: mrtyp
- There are too many different paths after 'What goes up'

That doesn't make any sense. There are two paths, and one of them's a dead end.
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: fraZ0R on June 04, 2017, 08:11:30 pm
If you win , then... I don't know , how about nobody can criticize your levels for a month!
I guess you guys want to be unable to criticize pattoo's levels for a month...
also , I had an original idea. The room Arbitrary Code Execution. I gave screenshots and pattoo didn't. I didn't blatantly copy other people's ideas. I honestly think the room Arbitrary Code Execution wasn't glitchy or luck based , I think it was skill and timing based.
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: Ally 🌠 on June 05, 2017, 12:35:57 pm
both suck we're all shit here let's move on to greater things LIKE AFTERMATH
Title: your rules are dumb
Post by: moth 🦋 on June 05, 2017, 02:35:17 pm
I guess you guys want to be unable to criticize pattoo's levels for a month...
nobody else agreed to this but you
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: lol...ipops2 on June 05, 2017, 02:40:19 pm
Ok, 4eetr5, you DID have screenshots, but you can CLEARLY see the magnifier cursor on the right, and it looks so weird.
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: mrytp on June 05, 2017, 03:06:59 pm
The dead end room has spikes.
It also has a checkpoint (in 'anticlimax') so the room is un-escapable.
Quote
The trinket room glitching out is used in 2 of your points and I used the moving platforms in it on purpose.
I know I mentioned the glitching platforms twice but to decide the winner, I didn't add the points up so that doesn't give you a disadvantage against pattoo.
Quote
Them glitching out looks cool and makes a good challenge.
You might think it looks cool, but I don't and it is not a good challenge- it is luck based.
Quote
And most of the stuff in pattoo's level is copied from other levels. That come with the game. The electric shock is from Soul Searching.
I know this but I don't think copying things from other levels is that bad. Obviously it is plagiarism to copy an entire level or story and make small adjustments but taking inspiration from other people isn't a bad thing.
Quote
You literally gave pattoo points for using scripting but not me.
Sorry, I forgot about that.
Quote
You gave pattoo points for covering the bottom row with the roomname but you deducted points from me for doing the same thing.
I gave pattoo points because his room used the roomname as a level gimmick where you fall off the screen because you can't see the hole, your level covers up the bottom of the screen for no reason.
Quote
You gave pattoo tons of points for stuff i do all the time , but I dont get points for those.
Actually-
Review Part 2:
+ You have used direct mode, music and roomnames
Quote
And come on , you don't give me points for having the right amount of difficulty in trinket challenges? Or for not having repeating scripts?
Quote
But your trinket challenge didn't have the right amount of difficulty- it is luck based. Also, repeating scripts aren't too bad as long as you only go through that room once.
Title: shameless advert is shameless
Post by: Quote on June 05, 2017, 05:54:27 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrkzizNg5tE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrkzizNg5tE)
My two cents, sorry for being an awful critic lol
oof the video quality is awful im so sorry
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: fraZ0R on June 05, 2017, 07:48:04 pm
Oh crap I just realized that I misplaced the exit of a warp token. It should warp to the tunnel inside the room Quantum Tunneling but instead it warps you to the room Dead End. Remember people , this is why you must always test your levels. I'm also going to make a warp in the trinket challenges if you don't want to do them. And make Arbitrary Code Execution less luck based. And you know , improve the level in general. Am I even allowed to do this?? Or not?
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: mrytp on June 06, 2017, 02:50:09 pm
If you have already submitted the level, then I'd say no. Besides, I've voted already anyway.
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: fraZ0R on June 06, 2017, 07:21:52 pm
And the winner of the contest is.....
It's a tie. We need one more vote to decide.
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: uugr on June 06, 2017, 07:38:04 pm
Uhhhh...? There's Quote voting for you, and mrytp and I voting against you. Who's the fourth person?
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: fraZ0R on June 06, 2017, 08:14:49 pm
No , I'm talking about the votes on the strawpoll http://www.strawpoll.me/13110127/r
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: Trdjn on June 06, 2017, 08:53:57 pm
Uhhhh...? There's Quote voting fo
r you, and mrytp and I voting against you. Who's the fourth person?
No , I'm talking about the votes on the strawpoll http://www.strawpoll.me/13110127/r
Ok, so I'm going to write a comment here then.
Basically I've been reading most of the comments here, but didn't really think it was worth commenting on.

So, I think both levels weren't that impressive.
I'm not going to write stuff that has already been said here again.
Pattoo had somewhat of an ending instead of just a room with a Crewmate at the end.
5tr4 had the "And I'm going to eat you"-Joke at the end.
My major problem with "Iota" was that it very heavily relied on bugs. Trinket
It's interesting to see that VVVVVV also was the bug with falling into a 3 Block Gap, but I don't think that's good gameplay.

So I voted for Pattoo on the Poll.

Now everything makes even less sense.

. . . apparently the Poll just changed while I've been writing this, I actually voted the day 5tr4 submitted his level.
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: fraZ0R on June 06, 2017, 09:22:28 pm
Ok pattoo , you win. Yay. And it's all because I didn't playtest. I just thought of a great idea. I'm gonna make a collab with pattoo. There is one level that I've been working on for a while , but it's largely incomplete. Pattoo , I'm gonna have you make the next zone , then me , then you , and so on. I'll go make another topic for it.
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: uugr on June 06, 2017, 09:43:09 pm
Quote from: 5tr4
And it's all because I didn't playtest.

What the hell. That's like, basic level making. That's one of the most basic things every single designer should do. This isn't a tiny thing, it's what you should be spending a decent percentage of your level design time on. You can't just ballpark and say "eh, that looks fine". It's like presenting an empty level shell and saying "whoops! Silly me, I forgot to add in gameplay. What a relatable problem, right guys?" That's not something you can just 'not do'. I wish I could vote pattoo twice now, that's horrible.
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: cheesefactory on June 06, 2017, 11:20:25 pm
Quote
I wish I could vote pattoo twice now.

Never expected you to say THAT!
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: Ally 🌠 on June 07, 2017, 10:57:36 am
I never expected anyone to vote for either
both are shit
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: fraZ0R on June 25, 2017, 02:18:41 pm
So apparently someguy712x played both levels and linked to the strawpoll , and a lot of people voted on the strawpoll. So I have 33 votes and pattoo has 17 votes. I guess I win? http://www.strawpoll.me/13110127/r
Title: Re: Level Making Showdown
Post by: lol...ipops2 on June 25, 2017, 03:05:32 pm
Ok pattoo , you win. Yay. And it's all because I didn't playtest. I just thought of a great idea. I'm gonna make a collab with pattoo. There is one level that I've been working on for a while, but it's largely incomplete. Pattoo , I'm gonna have you make the next zone, then me, then you, and so on. I'll go make another topic for it.
With my vote, you won on the strawpoll. The level is fine, but pattoo's is, both are indescribable.