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VVVVVV => VVVVVV Levels => Topic started by: buzzyrecky on May 09, 2012, 11:42:44 am

Title: In Pursuing Design
Post by: buzzyrecky on May 09, 2012, 11:42:44 am
Hi, so this is my first of (hopefully) many levels.

I've been noticing that a bunch of the custom levels (or at least the ones that come with the game, since I haven't downloaded any from the forums yet) are insanely difficult, and that's basically the focus of the level... to be hard, which is frustrating for me, since I'm not the best VVVVVV player around. Because of this, I thought I'd do something different... where the level would be based off puzzles, secrets, and storyline, rather than difficult room after difficult room.

This level, especially the last half, is based heavily on a story I put together about something called The Hollow, which you can find out more about in the level itself. However, just beating the level won't get you the entire story, for there is a secret ending (*insert fanfare here*) in addition to the normal one (which is depressing, really, so I suggest going for the secret one). However, in order to unlock the secret ending, as well as bonus dialogues and backstory, you'll have to be thorough... but as long as you check everything and get all the tokens, you should be fine (as if that's an easy task).

So yeah, why should you play this level? Because it's interesting, it has a cool story, and it has two endings, as well as multiple secret dialogues scattered around (if you see a terminal that says something different, but nothing important, then there's a good chance you missed one). Oh, and did I mention the SoulEye music? Having more time to listen to that should be enough reason to download every custom level on the forums (just sayin).

I hope you enjoy the level, and I'd like feedback, especially if there's something that needs to be fixed. This level was made for 2.1, but it should still work fine in 2.0, as that's what I'm using.

Also, if you need some clues to getting the secret ending, feel free to ask. There are 2-3 trinkets that are hard to find/require some puzzle-ish fun stuff.

The level took me a little over an hour to 100% (I had to test it), so I'd say it will take anywhere between thirty minutes to one hour to complete, and anywhere between an hour and two hours to get everything. So yeah, it's kinda long. The worst part is that to get the secret ending, you'll have to backtrack a few times, meaning you might have to pass through certain areas multiple times in order to complete the level.

EDIT: Oh, and here's some hints in advance, since I know they'll confuse people (You have to highlight, just so it's not ruined for anyone else. Only use if you're really stuck! More will be added if people ask):

The Perturbed Rooms:
>>This shouldn't have been too hard, but Bottom Left Warp, Top Right, Top Right<<

The Labyrinth:
>>It was originally a lot harder, but I added in that terminal for you. If that wasn't enough, its the left warp in the second room, and then the bottom exit in the third. The trinket is to the left of the second room.<<

Doubt Puzzle:
>>Did you read the terminals at the 'A Revelation' room?<<

How to get past the right side of the Lost Tree room:
>>You have to get Karen, the computer in the Control room, to help ya. To do that, however, you need to go back and talk to her before continuing after you rescue your first crewmate (aka your dead body).<<

NOTE:

Temporarily having problems (?) with uploading the newest fix, so use this mediafire link:

http://www.mediafire.com/?p1v4mataqr4gh5r

Sorry for the extra trouble, idk what happened, really. Hopefully will not be this way with the next fix
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: buzzyrecky on May 09, 2012, 11:49:29 am
Oh, and here's a few screenshots:

(http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab41/buzzyrecky/VVVVVV/push.jpg)

(http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab41/buzzyrecky/VVVVVV/thinkfaster.jpg)

(http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab41/buzzyrecky/VVVVVV/doubt.jpg)

(http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab41/buzzyrecky/VVVVVV/cantbeunseen.jpg)

(http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab41/buzzyrecky/VVVVVV/mario.jpg)
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: FIQ on May 09, 2012, 04:49:33 pm
I just wonder, is it just me or is "Faith is Dead" impossible to clear?
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: ToasterApocalypse on May 09, 2012, 06:13:34 pm
Downloaded. Now to hunt bugs.

1. After getting the "nooby custom level" trinket, going back to where you got the previous trinket cuts off the roomname and some of the higher parts of rooms.

2. Either I suck at this level, or Faith Of Dead is impossible.
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: FIQ on May 09, 2012, 06:37:28 pm
Oh, I forgot about that.
This (sometimes) happens when you check for a flag, and if it's on, use a stop script while there's a dialog in the same script (even if it wouldn't get hit). To work around this, you have two options. Either, you do a "replace" dialog, or you have a seperate script with the solely purpose to check this flag, and if it's on, THEN run the script (i.e. the opposite of what you have now).
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: Arthur on May 09, 2012, 07:58:28 pm
I turned invicibility on ONLY for "Faith is Dead", and I finished the level. I was surprised because the ending wasn't "depressing". So I opened the level in the editor, and I saw some big issues, as the impossibility to get the trinket in the Generator room, or a scriptbox that has nothing to do in the room before the last one. Its script was also triggered by the terminal in the part which needs you 20 trinkets to be accessed. This script is made to allow you to have the good ending; it means you can't (at all) get the good ending without this scriptbox.
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: buzzyrecky on May 09, 2012, 10:55:38 pm
Quote
This (sometimes) happens when you check for a flag, and if it's on, use a stop script while there's a dialog in the same script (even if it wouldn't get hit). To work around this, you have two options. Either, you do a "replace" dialog, or you have a seperate script with the solely purpose to check this flag, and if it's on, THEN run the script (i.e. the opposite of what you have now).
Yeah... i only figured that out about 3/4 of the way in, and by then it was too late to change. I didn't want to add seperate dialoge every time too... I did notice that it fixed with terminals, however, and since there are plenty of those I thought it would be okay. I might possibly fix them all if I do a bigger update on the level, but idk... how much of a problem did you think it was?

Quote
I opened the level in the editor, and I saw some big issues, as the impossibility to get the trinket in the Generator room, or a scriptbox that has nothing to do in the room before the last one. Its script was also triggered by the terminal in the part which needs you 20 trinkets to be accessed. This script is made to allow you to have the good ending; it means you can't (at all) get the good ending without this scriptbox.
Oh, WHOOPS. I feel so dumb for not finding that mistake (the extra script), as I only played through with all the trinkets, rather than going for the normal ending. I sorta added that in for testing... and then forgot  I deleted that now, thanks for that. The download has been updated, and sorry for ruining the special ending for you D:

However, the generator trinket is entirely possible to get... it branches off the idea of one of the trinkets in the real game, actually... but is easier. (it has to do with the two terminals at the top)

and unless 2.1 changed enemy speeds or something, Faith is Dead is doable, as I've done it many, many times. It's easy, too... so I don't know what's wrong with it... I'm going to go download VVVVVV on a windows computer in my house just to see if 2.1 messed it up. EDIT: You guys were right... something changed between 2.0 and 2.1 regarding enemy movement, so the room was made impossible because of that. I fixed it in the updated download. I'd do further 2.1 testing to see where it broke other rooms, but I can't sit at the windows comp for long, so if you find anything else, I'd appreciate knowing

and if that's as far as you've gotten, it's a shame, since all of my favorite parts come after that room D:

Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: Arthur on May 10, 2012, 10:05:34 am
No, the other rooms aren't broken by 2.1 :) Also, the Generator trinket indeed can be claimed a very common way: for exemple, it is also used inthe main game (Price for the reckless), Reactor Disaster (The things we die for)...
The level is really nice, when you try to get the best ending! But some parts are very hard (for exemple, the part to the right of Lost Tree: don't try to go there if you're not sure you master the gameplay!) Also, there are some incoherent things: Viridian can know Violet is in the Core without reading the terminal that tells him; he also can mention Karen's name without activating the right dialog... But maybe you ran out of flags?
(By the way, there are some people on this forum who would maybe agree to fix the scripts; for example, PJBottomz, who gives you a script fix if you answer enough good answers to his VVVVVV Quiz)
EDIT: Please fix the terminal that freezes the game!
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: FIQ on May 10, 2012, 12:17:53 pm
Did you post a fixed version of Fate is Dead yet?
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: buzzyrecky on May 10, 2012, 12:20:33 pm
No, the other rooms aren't broken by 2.1 :) Also, the Generator trinket indeed can be claimed a very common way: for exemple, it is also used inthe main game (Price for the reckless), Reactor Disaster (The things we die for)...
The level is really nice, when you try to get the best ending! But some parts are very hard (for exemple, the part to the right of Lost Tree: don't try to go there if you're not sure you master the gameplay!) Also, there are some incoherent things: Viridian can know ??????? without reading the terminal that tells him; he also can mention Karen's name without activating the right dialog... But maybe you ran out of flags?
(By the way, there are some people on this forum who would maybe agree to fix the scripts; for example, PJBottomz, who gives you a script fix if you answer enough good answers to his VVVVVV Quiz)
EDIT: Please fix the terminal that freezes the game!

I didn't think the far right rooms were THAT bad, haha. I did it quite a few times (since you do have to do it multiple times to get everything, even if you know which ones are right), and I'd say that especially after you figure it out, it's a lot easier than some of the gravity line rooms.

Quote
Viridian can know ?????????? without reading the terminal that tells him
He can? If you could tell me where, that'd be nice. Unless it was one of the hard to reach areas, like the 20 trinket terminal or an area past the potential for anything music change, I should fix that.

Quote
he also can mention Karen's name without activating the right dialog... But maybe you ran out of flags?
If you're talking about the lost tree terminal... I'm pretty sure there's a check set up for that one where he only mentions her if you went back to talk to her the fourth time. If not, then please tell me where I should do the editing.

Quote
EDIT: Please fix the terminal that freezes the game!
I didn't notice any that froze for me when I played it through... is there a certain way you went about doing this, or is it something that I edited after playing? Also, which terminal is this? I did notice that some of the scripts in Can't Be Unseen can be a bit glitchy at times, but other than that I didn't notice any major bugs

and I think that once I get all the initial mistakes out of the way, I might just go back and fix those scripte myself, since I don't think there are more than 10 anyway. Thanks for the help, though! It's embarrassing... I spent a good hour or two just fixing the level to make sure it didn't have any mistakes/typos/bugs... and then when I post it I get all of this xD
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: FIQ on May 10, 2012, 12:21:43 pm
Dialogs can freeze the game if other things happens at the same time (mostly trinket-touch or crewmate-touch).
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: buzzyrecky on May 10, 2012, 12:23:58 pm
and yes, I fixed that level in the most recent post.

I don't know why it only worked in 2.0... did Terry change the enemy speed/movement or something?

Quote
Dialogs can freeze the game if other things happens at the same time (mostly trinket-touch or crewmate-touch).
I had a few of those cost me hours of work during the creation of the level, actually... but I didn't see any that froze in either of the versions I played through (the first one I uploaded, as well as the finished copy before that). If anyone can point out where it was broken, I'll get to changing it up a bit, though.
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: Arthur on May 10, 2012, 01:47:08 pm
The game-freezing terminal is the one in Tomato Lovers Anonymous that hasn't anything to tell you. The third time it's activated, the game freezes.
Viridian talked about Violet on my first playthrough, when he looked at the terminal in "Point of no return" before activating it.
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: buzzyrecky on May 10, 2012, 03:01:27 pm
I'll check both out and then update the download when I wake up tomorrow.

Thanks for all the help, it's very much appreciated

...hopefully my next level doesn't end up as messy as this one did.
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: FIQ on May 10, 2012, 03:19:25 pm
...hopefully my next level doesn't end up as messy as this one did.
Don't say so! Everyone must start somewhere, and you couldn't possible know that your level had an unwinnable screen on a version you didn't even have (This also happened for a featured level on the 3DS due to some alterations on jumping, one room was unwinnable). Everyone makes bugs, "veteran" level designers as well as new. That's a reason of why feedback is so important!
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: Arthur on May 10, 2012, 07:21:44 pm
The level took me a little over an hour to 100% (I had to test it), so I'd say it will take anywhere between thirty minutes to one hour to complete
My first thought about it: "Really?"
So I tried to speedrun the level, and i finished it in less than 8 minutes. And yes, the bad ending is REALLY depressing.
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: buzzyrecky on May 10, 2012, 09:24:17 pm
Quote
My first thought about it: "Really?"
So I tried to speedrun the level, and i finished it in less than 8 minutes. And yes, the bad ending is REALLY depressing.
Wow.

Well, I guess that taking time to solve the mazes/puzzles your first time might make it take a little more than 8 minutes, even if you're not going for the best ending.

and actually, fun fact: I was actually only going to keep the original ending, but near the end of the level's completion, I decided that 1-people would hate me for it and 2-I should reward the people who actually spent the time to get everything done... so I added in the better ending as well :3

Well, the terminal in The Point of No Return has been edited, and the freezing terminal is fixed (I still don't know why that one was freezing, as it wasn't really doing anything unusual... and it was a hidden, useless easter egg anyway, so good job on finding that)... so I think the current version is good bug-wise, until someone brings up something else. I'll likely release a version with edited scripts as well as something else (maybe a third ending/bonus rooms/new content of some sort) in the future, but for now I'll probably either start making a new level or play some other games I have on my list. (Just got Voxatron the other day, woo)

Also, aside from bugs, what did you think about the level? Anything I could improve on/keep in mind when I start a new level?
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: Pyrite on May 18, 2012, 10:18:42 am
Did you post a fixed version of Fate is Dead yet?
Faith, not fate, and yes, I suppose so.
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: ToasterApocalypse on May 18, 2012, 10:30:48 am
Quote
My first thought about it: "Really?"
So I tried to speedrun the level, and i finished it in less than 8 minutes. And yes, the bad ending is REALLY depressing.
Wow.

Well, I guess that taking time to solve the mazes/puzzles your first time might make it take a little more than 8 minutes, even if you're not going for the best ending.

and actually, fun fact: I was actually only going to keep the original ending, but near the end of the level's completion, I decided that 1-people would hate me for it and 2-I should reward the people who actually spent the time to get everything done... so I added in the better ending as well :3

Well, the terminal in The Point of No Return has been edited, and the freezing terminal is fixed (I still don't know why that one was freezing, as it wasn't really doing anything unusual... and it was a hidden, useless easter egg anyway, so good job on finding that)... so I think the current version is good bug-wise, until someone brings up something else. I'll likely release a version with edited scripts as well as something else (maybe a third ending/bonus rooms/new content of some sort) in the future, but for now I'll probably either start making a new level or play some other games I have on my list. (Just got Voxatron the other day, woo)

Also, aside from bugs, what did you think about the level? Anything I could improve on/keep in mind when I start a new level?

Nope, it's all good. Great level.  :viridian:
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: FIQ on June 30, 2012, 06:21:33 pm
I began playing this again, turning on invincibility to get past the unwinnable-in-2.1 room.

At the "don't flip at the checkpoint" room, the terminal at the left at the ????? will set VVVVVV into an infinite loop, crashing the game, when talked to a third time. This is due to "tv21.1" calling itself, instead of 21.2.

EDIT: Oh, I realized this was posted already, sorry for that. The post however didn't explain why.
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: buzzyrecky on July 05, 2012, 05:25:25 pm
Thanks for the info

I'll add the fixed version to the first post.
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: buzzyrecky on July 05, 2012, 05:26:43 pm
also, the unwinnable room should be fixed now as well, as I edited it with a windows computer using the updated VVVVVV game and I got it to work with slight adjustments.
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: Bearboy on July 10, 2012, 06:38:45 am
i fell into one of the spike holes at the top of nooby custom made level, and its glitching out and i can't flip anywhere, then I have to restart. fix?
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: buzzyrecky on July 10, 2012, 02:09:07 pm
Could you point out exactly where?

I tested everything myself and other people have played through the level, and I haven't heard any mention of this before. I even went back in to check and it seemed to be fine (aka kill me and send me back to the last checkpoint as intended)

Also, to anyone who cares, instead of completely reworking this level's scripts and stuff like I originally intended to, I think I am going to start a new level soon... probably not as big, but hopefully better. I will still continue to fix stuff on this one if anything is brought up though, as fixing is quite simple so I don't see why not.
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: Bearboy on July 11, 2012, 12:35:51 pm
it was the first hole. I was kind of oblivious of the floor not being there :D
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: buzzyrecky on July 12, 2012, 02:18:49 am
are you playing with invincibility on? if so, then it might glitch, as the level isn't made to be played with that turned on.
Title: Re: In Pursuing Design
Post by: Bearboy on July 12, 2012, 09:47:41 am
I think i experienced something where whenever i turn on vvvvvv, its invincible, sooo...
It might be fixed now :)