Author Topic: My Last Level: Dimension Funland (V 1.2)  (Read 14928 times)

SomniRespiratory Flux

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Re: My Last Level: Dimension Funland (New Version Added)
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2012, 06:19:37 am »
Hm. I'll stick with the original version for now. Just to see if I can finish it. I've made it as far as Standing in Line, which may be as far as I get. Holy cow. :vitellary:

Flushex

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Re: My Last Level: Dimension Funland (New Version Added)
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2012, 06:29:49 am »
Hm. I'll stick with the original version for now. Just to see if I can finish it. I've made it as far as Standing in Line, which may be as far as I get. Holy cow. :vitellary:

Standing in Line, Fearfall (which I believe you've played), and Overcrowded (which you haven't played) are the three hardest rooms of the map. I regret making the second "jump" in Standing in Line as hard as I did, so much so that I even made it slightly fairer in my "hard mode" (That , and moving the warp token in tilt-o-whirl like you recommended are literally the only changes I made to hard mode from the original). Your save would still work if you were to redownload either of the two versions (actually, maybe only the new version?), so don't feel like you shouldn't (I honestly recommend that you do), especially if it means you'll enjoy it more if you do so.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 06:49:44 am by Flushex »

SomniRespiratory Flux

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Re: My Last Level: Dimension Funland (New Version Added)
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2012, 07:31:36 am »
Fearfall I actually didn't find to be very hard at all, honestly. Not easy, per se, but not significantly harder than the rest of the map. Of course standing in line is going to be hard. :vermillion: But seriously, I know what to do, and I would probably say it is much harder than the rest. Overcrowded I have not seen, but I can tell from the name it won't be easy.
I'll probably download the "fixed" hard mode version, as I haven't even made it past the first part of the room, so if the second jump is significantly harder still, I might just want to update it.

Flushex

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Re: My Last Level: Dimension Funland (New Version Added)
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2012, 06:51:32 pm »
If you want to stick with hard mode that's fine, but I'd like to reiterate that the regular version isn't boringly easy, it's still tough. It is just more fair. For instance in Standing in Line, there is an extra checkpoint, which mainly serves to reduce frustration more so than difficulty, as you still have to make your way through the room.

In any case, if you ever feel like giving up, play the regular version, as I'd much rather have people beat the level and give me overall feedback than rage quit and never finish it.

SomniRespiratory Flux

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Re: My Last Level: Dimension Funland (New Version Added)
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2012, 07:25:06 pm »
If it gets to that point I'll just download the easier version. I'd just like to see the level as it was originally designed if that is possible.

Terry

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Re: My Last Level: Dimension Funland (New Version Added)
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2012, 05:30:19 pm »
Hey, saw you made an easy version of this level, so I thought I'd give it another look! :viridian:

A note on difficulty: I haven't featured any levels in a while, because frankly most player levels have gotten far too hard. Being too difficult is, I think, probably the worst flaw a level can have. VVVVVV itself often gets accused of being a difficult game, but compared to most of what people have been making with the editor recently, it's actually quite easy.

The worst thing about making a level difficult, is that it gets in the way of you expressing ideas to the player in level design. It's a barrier.

Anyway, that's really more of a general observation. Here's some specific feedback on your level:



This particular part in Tilt-O-Whirl feels mucky - getting the exact pixel position to hit that line correctly doesn't feel good, and for me basically came down to just finally getting lucky. The rest of the room is fine, but that first line feels bad.



This room, by design, has a lot of repetition, and punishes your failure harshly by setting you back quite far - two things that basically always feel bad.



Falling onto that lower platform in this part feels pretty bad too, because of a glitch in VVVVVV that causes the spike on the right here to kill you if you brush against it. This is the sorta thing that should really be worked around!

I stopped playing after this part.

Anyway, I sometimes come across a little harsh when I give feedback, so I wanted to reiterate that I think this is a cool level. It's probably my favourite player level in quite some time, actually.

Flushex

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Re: My Last Level: Dimension Funland (New Version Added)
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2012, 09:50:50 pm »
Thank you for giving feedback with screenshots. That was great. Also, I don't think this feedback is harsh at all. It tells me what to fix, which is the entire reason I request feedback to begin with. I want to polish the level as much as I can for anyone who downloads it in the future.

In Tilt-O-Whirl, if you start running from here:



...You will fall into it naturally, but there is no reason I should expect players to know that's what you're supposed to do, so I'll fix that.

As for the second room, I understand how it can be repetitive. For some reason, I really liked the idea of "unlocking" segments of the room as you go, but I got too excited with it, and I took it too far. I'll change this room as well.

The third room, timing troubles, is one of my least favorite rooms of the whole map. I was never really happy with it. I'm either going to remove all the spikes at the top, or scrap the room entirely for something else.

One ironic thing about VVVVVV is that it is actually harder to create an easy level than it is to create a hard one, because it requires restraint and the ability to realize not everyone will approach challenges exactly how you intend them too. This is why levels always seem easier to the creator than they actually are.

I'm glad you still think the level is cool. That means a lot. Thanks again for taking the time to review it!

Terry

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Re: My Last Level: Dimension Funland (New Version Added)
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2012, 12:13:57 am »
As for the second room, I understand how it can be repetitive. For some reason, I really liked the idea of "unlocking" segments of the room as you go, but I got too excited with it, and I took it too far. I'll change this room as well.

I think you're probably right that there's a good idea in there somewhere - it's possibly something easily fixed by some clever checkpointing!

Flushex

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Re: My Last Level: Dimension Funland (New Version Added)
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2012, 12:59:10 am »
Hmm, maybe something similar to this?



The circled part is two tiles of solid ground hidden by the disappearing block. So when you land on it, you won't fall through, but you'll disappear the block allowing you access to the second checkpoint from below.

FIQ

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Re: My Last Level: Dimension Funland (New Version Added)
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2012, 01:05:52 am »
Hmm, maybe something similar to this?

(image)

The circled part is two tiles of solid ground hidden by the disappearing block. So when you land on it, you won't fall through, but you'll disappear the block allowing you access to the second checkpoint from below.
I guess you realize that this makes the third platform "free".

Flushex

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Re: My Last Level: Dimension Funland (New Version Added)
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2012, 01:25:28 am »
Hmm, maybe something similar to this?

(image)

The circled part is two tiles of solid ground hidden by the disappearing block. So when you land on it, you won't fall through, but you'll disappear the block allowing you access to the second checkpoint from below.
I guess you realize that this makes the third platform "free".

You mean the third platform down? No it wouldn't actually. This is what the room would look like after you disappear the first two platforms:



So you'd still have to make your way to the third platform.

Terry

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Re: My Last Level: Dimension Funland (New Version Added)
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2012, 02:44:29 am »
Because of the timing of the enemies, getting the second platform was actually considerably more difficult than the third. I got the third on my first attempt, the second took more like 50. The problem was having to repeat the first one before I could retry the second!

Flushex

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Re: My Last Level: Dimension Funland (New Version Added)
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2012, 02:58:29 am »
Because of the timing of the enemies, getting the second platform was actually considerably more difficult than the third. I got the third on my first attempt, the second took more like 50. The problem was having to repeat the first one before I could retry the second!

Okay that means the problem is the enemy bounds. Noted.

SomniRespiratory Flux

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Re: My Last Level: Dimension Funland (New Version Added)
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2012, 03:47:01 am »
Yeah, I found the second "row" of that room to be the most difficult, due to the enemy patterns. I don't know why, but something about the timing made the safest-seeming "window" impossible to clear, and the window that would allow the player to successfully reach the other side required some tight squeezes. I don't remember precisely if it was going to the right or to the left that this happened, but it was only on the second tier. I liked the "unlocking" aspect of it, but it did seem a bit much to do in one go.

Flushex

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Re: My Last Level: Dimension Funland (New Version Added)
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2012, 04:14:07 am »
Yeah, I found the second "row" of that room to be the most difficult, due to the enemy patterns. I don't know why, but something about the timing made the safest-seeming "window" impossible to clear, and the window that would allow the player to successfully reach the other side required some tight squeezes. I don't remember precisely if it was going to the right or to the left that this happened, but it was only on the second tier. I liked the "unlocking" aspect of it, but it did seem a bit much to do in one go.

I am increasing the the enemy bounds by one row up top, and by one row below. It seems to increase the success window. Going to the left was usually harder than going to the right, but you only have to go to the left in hard mode. In the easier version, the spikes on the ceiling are gone so you can just go up through the arrows and loop back around. Seems much less frustrating that way.

If the second row still proves to be annoyingly hard, I'll alter something else, such as amount of enemies or enemy alignments.