Started by moth 🦋, May 16, 2016, 10:57:15 PM

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Quote from: Terry on May 19, 2016, 12:04:33 PM
I'm unlikely to add anything new to VVVVVV at this point (it's six and a half years old now!), and any updates I do in future will just be to fix compatibility with new operating systems, and things like that. Adding new features to custom levels (e.g. custom PNG minimaps, tower levels, fixing behaviours like how cutscene bars work) would branch the game into an old custom map format and a new custom map format, creating compatibility issues, which I really don't want to do!

What I *could* see happening are additions to the map editor that don't break the current map format - like, it'd be cool if there was a switch to allow internal scripting that automatically took care of implementation in the background. That sorta thing!
I have a feeling that merely mentioning that will make people ask you for that for a while ... ;p

2.1 already introduced compatibility issues -- the ability to have say()/reply() commands with more than 5 lines. Which is obviously backward compatible, but I assumed you meant forward compatible? (2.2 can play all levels that 2.0 can, except for that one level relying on the 2.0-only internal scripting bug (The one by Stalefish), but the reverse is not true. Backward compatibility is easy, forward much less so)
Personally if I had the time, and were the author of VVVVVV, hypothetically, I wouldn't mind add features that enhances the game experience to player levels, as long as it can fall back gracefully for people with outdated versions. In your examples, there's actually one feature that would fulfill that -- custom minimaps (Hell, 2.0 doesn't even have a map in first place!)

EDIT: Besides, why is this not in the VVVVVV board?

Ally 🌠

Terry, if I learn c++, can I work on 2.3?

moth 🦋

the thread got a bit offtopicly-ontopic if that's a thing
anyway I can honestly imagine myself making VVVVVV levels in 6 years and by that time it'll be twelve years old
In my opinion, this fanbase will never die


I agree.

VVVVVV and its fanbase are too cool to die out

btw jump mode will completely destroy the purpose of ye almighty venividivici

and make many parts impossible

moth 🦋

jump mode uses cheat engine and cheating is bad
also it looked faked too xd

Ally 🌠

But hey, it still kinda works if the gameplay is still good.

moth 🦋

Quote from: Quattro on May 24, 2016, 02:27:13 PM
Hey, VVVVVV's great as it is now (and even better from 1.0 to 1.9 and 2.0). No 2.3.
[Okay, now I'll say things that will all make you hate me.]
We all grew up on this forum because of a game that was supposed to be different than others at the time. Commodore 64-like graphics, no script particularities (imo it seemed like so), great retro music, and a level editor. That could permit half the things we can do now, and the available stuff in 1.9 (my first downloaded version) was enough to guarantee lifetime fun. Terry was able at the time to create a level editor that was able to make great levels with. Just think about Whirligig's Variety Show, or even other featured levels such as Vertiginous Viridian, Line Wrap, the Golden Spiral - all these were amazing not for internal scripting, or custom graphics, or custom music or something else. They were well-designed levels, with no scripting (except for 333333 that had a scripting that didn't injure gameplay in any manner, just some dialogues and working terminals, nothing else). They made us enjoy the game twice the times we could do without player levels.
Now, what do I see? VVVVVV has been completely changed. Too much internal scripting, too much custom graphics and other stuff. Dimension Open could be VVVVVV 2, as Switchback could be 3 and others could be sequels. I have to remember you that player levels are just player levels. Overdose is great, as well as the abovementioned Open and Switchback, as well as Floor Fifty will be, Viridian To The Future has been.
But I can't seriously recognize the original VVVVVV arcade feeling in them. I can see it in great levels such as Sergione's Ascost and Lab Violet, Asmodean's Stellar Matter, VC7's dimensions. That's also the answer to the question of inVerse.
So, yeah. VVVVVV has become an old school game that's not old school anymore.
Unfortunately the game became famous for being old-fashioned.

that doesnt apply to me
like at all
My very first level had custom graphics
I've always loved VVVVVV for the custom graphics and internal scripting potential there was. I love the customization, and that's the whole reason I keep playing. Terry's featured levels were good, but they just aren't enough. Being able to not have cookie-cutter levels with the same elements repeated over and over again is the point I love VVVVVV. So no, everything you just said does not only not apply to me. And honestly? I don't want the "old VVVVVV arcade feeling" back, nor did I ever like it.


Quote from: Quattro on May 24, 2016, 02:27:13 PM
I think you're conflating a retro style with differences from VVVVVV. Internal scripting can't do anything that couldn't be done in the main game, and custom graphics are generally used to make graphics as retro-styled as VVVVVV is. The current movement isn't really toward "modern" styled levels per se, but rather toward divergence from VVVVVV, which can of course take countless forms.

That said, there's still been a definite increase in levels with complex stories. I can't really speak for anyone else, but for quite awhile, I personally prided myself on creating simple, gameplay-focused levels with minimal-to-nonexistent storylines.

Then, of course, Overdose happened. Here's something interesting: Almost all of the gameplay in that level was handled by Lollipop. I was almost completely focused on story, primarily concerning myself with gameplay only where it would serve that story. This was an almost complete role reversal from my previous work.

Here's the key. At this point, I had gotten fed up with the prevalence, even demand for levels that very closely resembled the original game (dimensional destabilization! crewmates kidnapped! go to a polar dimension to save 'em!). So I came up with a story that hadn't been seen in a level before: starting with a ridiculous opener, then gradually peeling back layers revealing tragedy, depression, and regret. When I released it, I was really worried it would be rejected because of how utterly weird it was.

Instead, it turned out that the people demand novelty. And here's the point I'm meandering towards:

I think that this novelty and innovation is crucial. I think that it's amazing that people are diverging from the source material. I think that incredible and valuable stuff is being made because people are constantly trying to push the limits.

I think that it's wonderful that people are creating art.

Here's a thread from 2011. It's nearly as old as the game itself, and indeed hasn't been posted in for longer than any other level thread (except a WIP thread). It's an adaptation of Schindler's List of all things in the form of a VVVVVV level. Nearly six years ago, increpare was doing the same thing we are now: pushing the limits.


Quote from: Quattro on May 24, 2016, 02:27:13 PM
Asmodean's Stellar Matter


I promise I'll find a way to fix my laptop and continue working on it soon. Maybe once exam season's over.

moth 🦋

Anyway, Quattro, thanks for derailing my topic


If Terry add command to change the warp-around,that will be so cool!


..... Ummmmmm... Somebody teach this noob for me....

i don't use this site anymore, please don't look at my posts

What? Why would you teach the noob anyway? He isn't even necessarily a noob. Stop telling people what to do.