Piracy

[Socob]

Hello everyone,

I'm not sure if I should be posting this, but I feel that I need to inform you if you're not aware of it already. Apparently, the full game (not the demo or the beta) has already been released for free download on various sites related to piracy. As far as I can see, they even included the full soundtrack. Due to another topic posted here and other obvious reasons, I'm not going to post any links, but I can say that sources for those downloads are not particularly hard to find.
It's always sad to see something like this happen, but it seems that nothing is safe from piracy these days. I apologize if I shouldn't have said this (for example, I'm afraid that this post might encourage people to look for said sources and pirate the game). My intent is merely to let the people on this forum, especially the creator, know about this.

[VAgentZero]

The topic's already been bandied about quite a bit as it happens.  Generally you've got two choices:

1) Include DRM, incur community backlash, wait for hackers to break DRM, game is pirated
2) Don't include DRM, game is still pirated

Avoiding this is (for all intents) impossible.

[Applekid]

I'm surprised I've never seen #3:

3) Embed serial number, use traitor tracking to find out who's a jerk.

Long long long ago I worked on a website for a band. Napster just started making the news and they wanted to sell some tracks in mp3 format in a pre-iTunes era. After I told them it would be impossible to stop copying, turns out through experimentation I could embed data in unused areas in the file. It wasn't intrusive DRM in that it didn't prevent copying and didn't prevent playback (I found that most players of the day would just ignore the "tattoo" as bad data). So, on checkout, a unique "purchase serial number" would get embedded in a few places and the reasoning is that if it ever turned up on file sharing sites you can trace down the person to sue. It would be unlikely to be removed because it's already in an easily traded file format and, since the customer never gets to know their serial number, they wouldn't know what to search and scrub. Don't know if they ever used the knowledge, though.

Even easier for applications than mp3. Dunno about flash, but,

1) const platform_specific_64bit_field = 0xDEADBEEF;
2) Build your installer, turning off compression and checksums for that library
3) Hex-view to find the offset of 0xDEADBEEF (LSB or MSB, whichever is appropriate)
4) During download, stick a little php to serve the bytes up to that offset, replace with a generated serial, skip them from the file, and serve the rest.

Again, if you don't know what to look for when you're going to distribute it to all your friends, you're not going to know how to clean it. If there's obtrusive and obstructive DRM, the pirates are going to comb through it with a lot of scrutiny and crack and clean. But if they don't know they're giving away their info passing it along, all the more power to the dev.

Hell, for an indie without lawyers on the beckon it might just be enough to publicly shame them by putting them on a Hall-of-Shame website that'll get indexed by Google and then their friends, family, and future employers will see what kind of a person they are.

[Tribalsoul]

Piracy is inevitable.
I think it's best not give it attention. I think that's the best way to deal with negative energy.
If people can really find it in their heart to pirate VVVVVV and it's soundtrack, it says something about their personality or lack thereof. It's actually quite pitiful if you think about it.

[allen]

People are just cheap and selfish, nothing new. As for the people that actually buy the game and then share it, I don't know their motivation.

There was no need to make a thread about this, these things were inevitable.

[Socob]

Well, as I was saying, I just wanted to inform everyone that it actually has happened. I'm not sure if this information will be of any use, but it's worth knowing either way, in my opinion.

[GenL]

Sorry, dear friend, but judging logically you did a bad thing when you started this thread.
First thing, there is already a thread (locked) about this. Second thing, no matter what you really wanted to do, your post did all that you mentioned as a fear:

for example, I'm afraid that this post might encourage people to look for said sources and pirate the game

Besides, there are chances that you are a pirate too (because you found leaked version somewhere - it means you are visiting/visited pirating sites). Why not just keep this topic from appearing on developer's forum? That wouldn't make him feel bad at least.

But anyway, I think indie developers should just be cool and ignore piracy. Their creativity should overcome people's laziness and make them want to support the creator. If they would even think of implementing any mechanics just to be able to sue someone or post someone's personal data at a Hall-of-Shame, or if they would complain about people being pirating their game, then what is the purpose of being creative and cool developer?
When developer decides to make his project shareware, the whole world would just be splitted to 2 sides: supporters and pirates. There are people who wouldn't even know about his game, there are some people who will never be able to buy it, there are people who will never want to play it, and so on... And when you try to predict/count the % of such users for any reason, people will know you are only thinking about money. That's my opinion.

Sorry for this, I hope these threads will be deleted asap.

[Socob]

Sorry, dear friend, but judging logically you did a bad thing when you started this thread.
First thing, there is already a thread (locked) about this.

As I said in my first post, I'm aware of that thread. However, at least as far as I can tell, it is about the leaked beta version, not the full version I'm talking about.

Second thing, no matter what you really wanted to do, your post did all that you mentioned as a fear

While I'm not sure if I understand what you're trying to say here, I don't see what's wrong about expressing one's feelings.

Besides, there are chances that you are a pirate too (because you found leaked version somewhere - it means you are visiting/visited pirating sites). Why not just keep this topic from appearing on developer's forum? That wouldn't make him feel bad at least.

The fact that I was able to find a pirated version simply means that I'm able to use Google. Regarding your concerns about the developer's feelings, I believe that hiding the truth doesn't achieve anything. In fact, I'd feel better if I knew that my game sold worse because of piracy than to think that I produced a bad game. Besides, people would find out about this eventually, even if I hadn't made this thread.

Sorry for this, I hope these threads will be deleted asap.

As I've stated numerous times now, this thread is meant to serve informational purposes rather than discussion of piracy. As you pointed out, I do have my doubts if it should stay on the forum permanently and I wouldn't mind if it was deleted - after all, it fulfilled its purpose already.

[GenL]

I didn't mean to hide the truth. This truth (that it's leaked) is obvious because of the fact the game is shareware, and developer will know it without this thread.
As for informational purposes, I don't think users will be happy to even know it, or see such topic alive, nor the developer.

You know, the content of every single such topic is as simple as this:

OP: Guys, do you know that this game which we are buying, already pirated, right? I posted it just to inform you all.
Novice user: What? How dare they do it! Piracy is bad, right?
Power user: Yeah, we know it already. But it's inevitable.
Developer: We know it, thanks anyway. Locked.

So why even start it? Shareware is shareware, 99.9% of it is being pirated.

[SoulEye]

Ok guys, I just want to say this (and I think I speak for Terry too):

We know.

Talking about it on the forums is unneccessary. Want to make a positive difference? Buy whats sold if you like it, and recommend it to your friends who share your tastes!  

Cheers!

[Socob]

Good, that's all I wanted to hear.

Again, sorry for any inconviences.

[ME-tan]

If it wasn't for the beta being pirated I'd have never found out about this game; I'm waiting for the linux version at the moment. I was just linked to it, thought it was cool and started googling which brought me to the blog and so on. The pirates never pay for anything anyway even if you do add DRM. The DRM is just likely to annoy people who can't get their game working in 10 years time when they get bored and fancy playing it again, and all the links are dead.

I agree with the embedded serial/hall of shame thing. That is a supurb idea

[A7A]

People, some pirates do pay for the work of others, as I did for Terrys. As for people who buy the game and share it, well, my motivation is simply that I believe it is up to others if they want to pay or not for something. A libertarian republican view can be applied to support this view:

http://mises.org/story/3682

... but it doesn't have to. Myself I'm an leftist anarchist, the ones people in the US are afraid of when refering to the "Coming insurrection". 

For another view from a fellow indie game make, Jason Rohrer has a page on free distribution:

http://hcsoftware.sourceforge.net/jason-rohrer/freeDistribution.html

Cheers!

[StephenM3]

Just a pointer.  There's a HUGE difference between someone offering their game for free, and someone trying to sell their game but having it pirated.  What I don't understand is why pirates don't just play the games that the creator WANTS you to play for free, instead of taking stuff from a creator who doesn't want you to play without paying. If  you're so certain that you shouldn't have to pay for something, then you should be able to just go without it.

[justjoshb]

As for people who buy the game and share it, well, my motivation is simply that I believe it is up to others if they want to pay or not for something.

I believe it is up to the creator whether or not he wants to share his work for free or charge for it. Seeing as he's the one who made it.

And I know it's probably 'cool' for you to be a 'left anarchist' and all but try and have some respect for a product that a person has spent a lot of time working on. Especially as it's an indie developer - it's hardly like a massive corporation where money will be made regardless

Additionally regardless of what you believe it is not 'up to others' to decide whether or not to pay for things